|  Inertial-Mass | May 17, 2004 9:09pm | 10: You might often hear a Protestant say "the bible says" or "the bible teaches" because the typical Protestant view is that religious authority comes from the bible. The Catholic view, however, is that the New Testament is a product of the Spiritual Tradition, instituted by God in the Apostles and still alive today in the Church. The earliest Christians were really Christians even without the bible as we know it because of this Tradition. Further, with the Tradition came for the first time in history the full and right interpretation of the Old Testament.
According to the Tradition, which is reflected in the bible, the world will come to an end, but we don't know when (a billion years?) and we don't even know whether "world" means just the earth or the entire universe. Seems to me more likely the entire universe. |
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Sponsor |  rune | May 18, 2004 4:00am | | ok. so what's your reason for believing in this 'Spiritual Tradition'? |
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| | Inertial-Mass | May 18, 2004 5:01am | 12: Personal contact with those who brought the Tradition to me.
The Tradition exists only in a community, and it can be transmitted faithfully only via an authentic human relationship. Its transmission requires, for example, the demonstration and witnessing of humility, sacrifice for others, penitence for one's sinfulness, reverence of right authority, and instruction in what is to be believed and why it is right.
My father has made quite an impression on me. But there are as well others of particular note in my case. |
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Sponsor | | usmjam | May 20, 2004 1:51pm | | 9) & 10) I'd like to ask some questions re Catholic beleifs such as the roll of "the" church till end times and the question of Protestant reliance on the Bible for doctrinal authority. It may however be better situated in another forum such as Apologetics. Inertial, I know I asked you before since you made an open and still unanswered offer to discuss in the Beleifs forum. Let me know. |
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Sponsor | | rune | May 20, 2004 3:31pm | 14: any spiritual matters are ok here :)
13: It sounds like the original "Tradition" was knowledge, without the need of the bible, and the bible and the church are some of the means used to pass on the Tradition - is this right? Do you think it's possible that people can be enlightened enough to have the Tradition (knowledge) within, here today, without the need for a church or bible?
I do, and I see "reverence of right authority" as honouring this gift of Tradition within, and also honouring the outside source from which it came. |
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| | Inertial-Mass | May 21, 2004 11:11am | 15: The Apostolic Tradition is more like a culture than like knowledge. Knowledge is implicit within the Tradition and has been only slowly and gradually grasped even after centuries of reflection on the Tradition. Mere knowledge can be gained from a book, but enculturation requires personal contact with those who have the culture; enculturation requires the development of real, human relationships. Jesus gathered around Himself a group of 12 close friends, and He imparted His Tradition to them. He taught them right habits of thinking and feeling, and He taught them the truly prophetic meaning of what we now call the Old Testament. When the time was right, He sent them into the world to spread the Tradition and to build up a permanent infrastructure (the Church) for the preservation of the Tradition.
Bits and pieces of the truth are scattered around. One who is apart from the Church and who knows little of scripture may yet be enlightened to some extent by truth; he may even practice elements of the Tradition without knowing. But the fullness of truth available to man in this life can only be had in communion with the Church.
16: See my response in the apologetics group. |
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|  |  127815 | Jun 7, 2004 1:28pm | | IM and Rune, this is a lovely peaceful discourse. So rare and so precious. IM, it's like reading the encyclicals the way you explain things, like your soul is taking a long drink of water. |
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